SPEAKER_00 0:01

I think I I think it was, was it GK Chesterton? I think that said like comparison is the thief of joy. So I always think of that where I'm like, okay, like nope, I'm starting to compare myself. And but I think it's just natural to look to other humans to say, oh, am I doing this quote unquote right? Am I fitting in? Am I gonna survive this? Am I right? We just kind of naturally do that. So I wouldn't say that it's wrong that we're doing it. I think it's natural that we do that, but then to notice that and shift it to be like, oh, and it's okay that my grief looks different.

SPEAKER_02 0:47

Welcome to the Catholic Grief Podcast. I'm Jenny Burba. After walking through profound loss, I discovered that grief and faith are not enemies. In this space, we speak openly about grieving. We bring our grief to the foot of the cross, anchor ourselves in Scripture and the sacraments, and gently rebuild with Christ at the center. If you are carrying sorrow, you are seeing here. Let's walk this path together.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Okay, so welcome back. We are here again with Nicole. Um, you may remember her from season one where she said shared her personal grief story about losing both her parents very close together and her journey into grief coaching. But today we're gonna go deeper into what grief coaching actually looks like and talk about what she's bringing to the grief workshop this coming weekend, right? Um, that that we are co-hosting together, and we're really excited about it. So let's get started with prayer in the name of the Father, the Son, the Holy Spirit, amen. Heavenly Father, come into this space with us, help guide our conversation, help us to reach those that are grieving and that are looking so desperately for how to take the next step forward because we all in this community know that there's no moving on. There is just moving forward. In your name we pray. Amen. Okay, so let's just dive right in. If someone came to you and said, I'm grieving and I don't even know what I need, what what what would be the first step that you take with them?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah, so that's yeah, that's pretty common, right? So the first the first step I do is I help them calm down their nervous system because we can't logically think when we are just almost fritzed out, right? Our brain's an overload. It's like we are flight, fight freezing, fawning, fixing, like we're just kind of in that nervous system response. And so first it's just like, okay, like it's okay, like it is a lot. There is like everything's all over the place, it feels like, and so we kind of like just take a deep breath, calm down, and then I have people tell me, like, okay, well, like what currently is the thing that feels like too much or feels like a lot, and then they'll list off, you know, like 10 or 15 things. It's like, okay. And so we kind of like just let it, I don't want to say like fester, but we kind of let like, yeah, we just acknowledge all the things that are happening that is a lot, and right now you're just an overwhelm. And yeah, you don't even know how to communicate what you need, you don't even know what you need. And so then I start by having them say what are some things that they love and enjoy that are very simple. And I always give them examples for myself because I'm like, they can be so simple. And I'm like, I love peppermint coffee creamer year-round. I love when I have ice in my water bottle. So I have ice cold water, I love my fuzzy blanket, I love reading books, right? So it can be just really basic and like once we have a list of like 20 things, then we can see like, oh, these are the things that I can start to incorporate. And once like they then say their whole list of things that they need to do, then it's like, okay, like what things can you delegate? What maybe your kids can help fold the laundry, or maybe the laundry doesn't need to be folded for the next two months, right? Like just even deciding that just is like, oh, like you can see like the relief on their face of like, oh yeah, like I don't have to do that. So that's kind of where we start, and then yeah, just diving a little deeper into that.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Okay, yeah, I love that point about the laundry because um, I know for me, folding is a struggle, especially with young children. But if you at least like lay them out in piles so they're flat, like not necessarily folded, I think that that's good enough. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes, yeah. Um, so what are or are there patterns that you see over and over in grieving people?

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Yeah, so I you know, everybody's obviously a little different, but the the variations kind of stay the same, of like they feel really numb right away, and it's almost like you're going through a fog, and then it's almost like I wouldn't say the fog lifts, but it's like the pain comes in, right? Like it just kind of like hits you, and and you still feel like you're going through a fog, and so it's like that is pretty common, and then it's then it's kind of managing like what like the anniversaries, right? Like the death anniversary or um holidays, and so it's it's kind of recognizing that, and then it's like the pattern kind of continues, like you kind of pull out, you can see like the the light at the end of the tunnel, and it's like, oh, like I had a really good day, or maybe a couple days. It's like, oh, things are getting better, and then it kind of hits you again, and then it's like, oh, things aren't getting better, and so I see that pattern a lot, and it's like, no, things are, I wouldn't say maybe even getting better, it's just like things are shifting, like you're kind of at stage three of the five stages, right? So it's like you're you're here now. So that fog will get a little less, the pain will get a little less, and then and then it'll start all over again. But each time the goal is to have it be a little bit less and for you to know a little bit more about yourself and what your needs are, so then you can communicate and you can take care of yourself too, if there is nobody that you can rely on or you know, ask for those things.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Yeah, I love that. I know that I um heard it described as a lot of times grief comes in waves, you know. You have that that wave that crashes down, and then you have that um that reprieve where it goes kind of back out into the ocean kind of thing, but then it comes back. But but you're right, it does, and you're right, easier isn't quite the right word, but you do learn more about yourself, you learn more about God, you learn more about grief, and you're able to cope with it better. You learn your coping mechanisms. So I love it.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Yeah, and it and I think too, like grief has a way of bringing the things that are kind of urgent to the front of your mind, and everything else is just like, oh my gosh, like why do people even care about that? Like, why are people even talking? Like, who cares? Like, so it's like it does have a way of helping you kind of already hyper focus on certain things, or maybe not even hyper-focus, but just like, oh, this stuff doesn't matter, so get it out. Like, this is what's important right now, and really is important in life, right? Like family, um, time together instead of you know, people worrying about things you're just like, oh my gosh, like that's just ridiculous. Like it does in the long scheme of things, it doesn't even matter. So it does, it kind of grief has a way of really bringing that the important things up to the surface.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah, yeah, that definitely helps you reorganize the priorities in your life, yeah. Um, do you find that people worry that they're grieving the wrong way?

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Yeah, I think a lot of people I think it is a concern because people are like, oh, like this per I see this person doing this and they seem fine. That's not me at all. And or you know, like, yeah, I think just comparing yourself to others, even the same situation. Like, I have an older sister and a younger brother, and even though we went through the same thing, it's like we're in different stages of our life, and so it it affected us differently on different levels at different times, and it can be easy to look and be like, oh, like maybe I'm not doing it right, like maybe they have the answer, or maybe you know, I should do like whatever they're doing more, like maybe I should just not talk about it as much, but like I really need to talk about it. And so I think I I think it was, was it GK Chesterton? I think that said like comparison is the thief of joy. So I always think of that where I'm like, okay, like nope, I'm starting to compare myself. And but I think it's just natural to look to other humans to say, oh, am I doing this quote unquote right? Am I fitting in? Am I gonna survive this? Am I right? We we just kind of naturally do that. So I wouldn't say that it's wrong that we're doing it. I think it's natural that we do that, but then to notice that and shift it to be like, oh, and it's okay that my grief looks different.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, I do think that that's I mean, and that's something that we learn in childhood, you know, like even with our parents and teachers. Well, look how so-and-so is doing it. That's how you should be doing it, kind of a thing that's instilled in us. Yeah. Um, and gosh, I had another thought and it just left. Um, but but yeah, comparison is definitely the thief of joy, and I know like that's been one of my struggles after losing my first spouse and now being remarried. I have to be very careful to not compare one to the other because they're both very different men. It's a very different love. Um, but and and they're gonna be different, but I can't get stuck in that comparison. Um the other thing that I wanted to mention because you said something about um about not about different people not talking about it. Didn't you just say something like that?

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Yeah, yeah, or like if if they're talking or like not talking about it and I need to talk about it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah, that's something that um because it'll be five years in October since I lost my husband. And I've started to notice little things where people are posting memories of him on Facebook and tagging each other, but not tagging me. And it's kind of like, do they think that I don't want to remember him? Do they think that I don't want to talk about him since I'm living this new life with a second husband? But that's not the case at all. I still think about him every day, and I would love it. And actually, I did have a friend text um a photo memory of him and I today to me, and just said I found this photo and wanted to share it with you, and I really appreciated that because he was such a big part of my past, and I do want to remember him, and I want people to know that I still remember him. So that was just a little aside, and it just said just to spark that. Um so one thing in our last conversation that really stuck with me was uh we were talking about how Catholics can sometimes confuse offering it up with sucking it up, sucking it up. What does that look like when you're working with grieving Catholics?

SPEAKER_00 13:33

Yeah, I think probably that's one of the biggest hurdles is people think, oh, like if I if I'm weak, if I fall apart, if I right, like that means I'm not holding it together and I need to hold it together, and which is kind of another way of saying, like, I better suck it up and just move on, and life goes on, and like there's things that need to be done, and then I'll just go and I'll go to the bedroom and cry, or I'll cry in the shower in the morning, right? Like, because it is, it's scary, it's to be vulnerable, and so offering offering it up truly, turning to God is a form of being vulnerable, really truly, with him and saying, Here, I'm trusting my heart with you to not hurt me further. Because that's what I I think when it comes down to my grief and my pain, it's like, do we trust God what he says he is, and that he's always willing our goodness, the the good of us, like always, everything, even the things that are not good and evil, he's turning them for the good. And and even if it's not for like our individual relief in the moment, it is for the good, right? So, so do we trust that? And that's where offering it up and turning to him instead of away from him and just like, okay, I'm gonna suck it up. I'm just gonna keep going, I'm gonna persevere, I can do this on my own. Like, that's where it's a big difference. And every time I kind of realize like that's what I'm doing is I'm holding on to it and trying to do it on my own and be like, okay, I just gotta suck it up. I just gotta, you know, keep going. Uh, nobody wants to hear about this anymore, then it's like, oh no, like Jesus wants to hear about it. He really does. He wants all of it the good, the bad, the ugly, like everything in between. And so the more that I kind of that I practice that and I do that, and every time I do that, I feel better. And again, like there's still the pain and there's still the grief, but I feel better because I don't feel alone in it. And I I think that is something that is probably the biggest struggle that as Catholics, you know, we're told, like, we hear, I don't know, I heard it from a young age, just like offer it up, offer it up. And it's like, yeah, in a way, it was kind of like just nobody wants to hear about just go go away, suck it up, and like so we get we get confused in our humanness. Like, again, my parents, they were good parents, but like they were human too. They made mistakes, and so I make mistakes, I make mistakes with my children as well now. So to just keep coming back to that, to be like offering it up doesn't mean I have to suck it up and do it on my own. It really means I just turn to God and just say, I'm giving it to you. Okay, like I all I have, like there's been times where I'll before mass and I'll just be like, Lord, like I know I've told so many people I'm gonna pray for them. So I give them all to you, whoever I said I would pray for. And I just right now, the only thing I have to give is my exhaustion. I can't even think of what to say or do in this like I'm just giving it all, I'm just giving you my complete exhaustion. You have it all, Lord. And that's that's sometimes all we can do.

SPEAKER_01 17:12

I love that, and that's that's very similar to what Eileen said a couple weeks ago. Where when in mass we talk about we lift our hearts up to you, sometimes the only heart we have to lift up is our broken heart, yeah, and and that's what he wants too. He wants all of it, and um and just offering it up, like you said, to not be alone, to tell him that we need his help and his strength. So we're offering this to him rather than rather than turning away. I love that. Um how would you describe redemptive suffering?

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Oh yeah, this one is yeah, this is a hard one. I I think I think it's hard for us to wrap our mind around it, right? Where like redemptive suffering means again, if I truly give it to the Lord, like some good will come of it. He will take that and use it for and maybe not even somebody that I know, but like for somebody, he will use it for a good of that soul, or you know, like mankind in general. Like, so I just I but it's hard in the moment to be like, this terrible thing happened, and I'm in so much pain. Like, why would you do this, Lord? Like, why would you do that? And that I think is a journey that's again kind of what we were talking about, like it kind of cuts away all the stuff in the world that doesn't matter, and that's kind of at the forefront of our mind is that pain is so great when we lose somebody, and it's like, why? Why, like, God, if you were a good and loving God, like why would you do this? And it's so again, it's to trust, really, is what it comes down to. Like the whole story, you know, the whole Bible, like all it is is like God showing how good and loving He is. And do we trust Him? Do we keep do we are we faithful to Him? And so I just and sometimes, you know, in my my moments where I'm kind of pouty pants and I don't want to do it, I'm just like, okay, and like, and the people of the Bible weren't perfect either. So like I kind of I try to have compassion for myself and be like, it is hard. It is hard to understand when we don't have the full picture. It's hard to understand when we can't see all of the moving parts, and yeah, it's coming back to that trust, and and I think too, to to offer every part of ourselves, right? Like the the sadness, the anger, the the joy, like all of that. Like that really is what God wants from us. And it it's so simple and yet it's not at the same time. So yeah, I I just think like the more and I truly I don't, you know, I'm not a theologian, I can't like explain what redemptive suffering, all the things, you know, all the scriptures and how it ties in. But I'm just like, I just know that God is good and he is true and he is love, and my job, my work on earth is to just keep turning to him instead of away from him.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Yeah, I think part of it is being able to connect to Jesus' suffering on the cross as well. Like the pain we feel on her on here on earth is just like a minuscule part of what he felt going through the whole um the whole stations of the cross, um, way of the cross, and then being um being crucified. And uh it reminds me of I don't know if you watched The Chosen, but I recently watched um an interview with Jonathan Roomy. I can't remember who interviewed him, but they were talking about um about what it was like for him to actually um go through all of that when he was when they were filming season six. Um and he talked about how he prayed that if he could just feel like a small portion of what it felt like as he was going through this. Um he uh I I don't remember the exact words, but he he wanted to feel just a little bit of what it was like for Jesus. Obviously, he didn't want to feel all of it because he knew it was horrible. And he said that um that there was this.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

point where he ended up hurting his shoulder and and then he had to continue with the filming and so this pain in his shoulder was just excruciating but then he remembered his prayer and he was like okay wow this is you know it's helping him really also get into the whole character and the and the scene and everything but um but just those like little things like the little pains the the shoulder pains the ache and aches and pains and stuff like that and then this heartbreak also is something that that we're able to just get a little glimpse of what Jesus has done for us I think yeah and I also think like for me I look to Mary more because I'm kind of I'm like I don't know I always feel like Jesus like I'm like oh my god like yeah everything he went through was it was so much and so but then too like Mary was right there with that and I just think too Mary is like such a good example of like she went through almost every grief that a human could go through and so it's like anything that you're going like you can look to her and be like and she'll always unite you to Jesus. So it's always like and it feels to me a little bit more like manageable because I sometimes I feel like oh my gosh like Jesus is so so good and so like like I can't compare like I'm here complaining about a head cold or something you know but but yeah so I I do think Mary and like the saints to our amazing avenues to get us closer to Jesus yeah and to unite into that redemptive suffering like is is the whole goal. You know we have we have so many more um guides so to speak to help us um cope and learn how to um to move forward to despite all the grief so um one of the things that you're gonna talk about in this workshop at the foot of the cross is difficult family relationships um why did you feel like this was something that you wanted to bring into our grief workshop yeah because I think it's something just like you talked about earlier like okay people are posting things about your husband and and you want to be part of that right but it's like so I just think this comes up so often where it's like we want to be part of it but yet if they say something we're kind of upset too it's like I mean it could be both ways right like I've I've gone where like okay you go to Thanksgiving and like people bring up like they'd talk about like my mom or dad right and I'd be like sad and it's like oh man like I was like I find I was kind of like okay and now I'm not but then if they wouldn't have brought it up I would have been sad because like well do are they moving on like have they forgot about them like you know so I just think there's like this this balance and to like everybody grieves differently outwardly I would say like the outward part is so different for everybody. And some people want to talk it some people refuse to talk about it. Some people say things that are kind of like oh my gosh why would you say that and then other people like say the perfect feels maybe like the perfect thing. So it's like there's all these different levels and we have to be around humans. We have to be around other humans. So it's like how do you how do you show up to Thanksgiving? How do you show up to Christmas and not for one not dread going because that would happen a lot like I would get really anxious and almost like dread going because I would know this person's probably going to make a comment this one's probably going to say something snarky. This one's not going to say anything at all. Right so it's like knowing how to navigate that for yourself and letting them the people that you're gonna be around kind of do their thing but not let it affect you is a game changer. And so that's what I found is like to know what to say know how to hold that space for your heart and knowing how to talk to yourself before the event during the event after the event of just like no like I I'm okay no matter what and and so I just think it's really important because yeah we we are on earth with other humans and other humans say things that are not always the kindest and how how do we how do we navigate that how do we do that and so yeah I think it's just a really good tool to have in your wheelhouse.

SPEAKER_01 27:07

Yeah I agree because I know um both in my miscarriage and a friend we've had family members that did not react in a loving way um almost as if since that child never made it to earth they didn't really matter was the feeling that we got um and then you know with um I know with losing my spouse I his family has been a really struggle there and Eileen also mentioned some relationships in her life that that changed um because of the grief. So what would you say to someone whose family relationships have become almost a second loss during their grief yeah I think that again it's pretty common because it does it shifts the family dynamics it changes things and I think too it's it's going back to what are our expectations with this relationship and maybe it's a relationship that I do want to put the effort and the work into and how to hold boundaries on that without completely just being like yeah they can say whatever they want because this relationship's important to me like no that's not okay either.

SPEAKER_00 28:34

But also say maybe that relationship needs to be on hold for a little while because it doesn't mean that we're gonna cut them out of our lives forever but maybe it's just not now right and then there are relationships where maybe we do need to cut them out of our lives because you know that there are a lot of people that have so many wounds that then they just wound other people and knowing that okay I love them I forgive them doesn't mean that I have to be a doormat for them. So I think that it's finding that balance and and yeah how to navigate that because it is it's a it's another loss on top of a loss. We think we think that our family and friends will be the one who understand us and support us. I know for me it was I was shocked to my very core that my husband didn't understand what I needed and didn't know how to support me and would say things that like were not helpful and even hurtful and it's like we've been together since I don't know we're 16 17 like how do you not know what I need and then it's like oh because I don't even know what I need how can he know what I need so it's it's navigating that and again deciding if the relationship is something you want to work on right now. Maybe you want to pause for a little bit and come back to it or be like yeah maybe like unless they have a drastic change and get some healing done themselves they're probably not a person that I I'm gonna have in my life anymore.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

And again grief kind of just brings all that up to the surface whether we want it to or not yes so without giving away your whole workshop presentation what's one practical thing that someone could do before having a difficult family conversation yeah so I think for the the biggest thing is to know what and to think about what we're expecting out of it because if we're going into a conversation expecting somebody to be like if you go in and you're like oh like you said this thing and it really hurt my feelings my expectation would be like oh I'm like that the person would reply oh I'm so sorry like I guess I can see how that happened and I'll try better next time 90% of the time that's not going to be the response is going to be defensiveness like wow I was just doing this and you need to right it's just like it's like what are our expectations and maybe again if that we know that person isn't going to respond what in the way that we're expecting or hoping they would maybe we don't even need to bring it up if we still feel like it is important then it's to say okay if they respond in defensiveness I'm just being like okay thank you for hearing me and then walk away because it's saying yes I wanted to bring it up I wanted to say it I did that they had their response I can't control their response and I'm gonna walk away and move on so it's it's navigating that kind of stuff. That's great advice I love that because you could get into the trap of just going back and forth arguing with each other and that doesn't do anyone any good. Yeah yeah exactly that's awesome so your other presentation is dealing with grief triggers and um you know anyone that has experienced significant loss knows how quickly something can just hit you out of nowhere.

SPEAKER_00 32:13

So what do you think is actually happening in those moments yeah so typically what happens is like you know you'll see something or you'll hear a song or a smell and yeah it's a nervous system response that happens because our body doesn't feel safe and it's you know maybe bombarded with something and then it's like it's it's just a nervous system response and and I say that saying it's it is just a nervous system response but also just is not a really good word to use because it does feel very intense and like oh my gosh like what is happening and so knowing like but for me saying oh I'm having a nervous system response it's okay like my typical one is like to fight or to fix. And so those are kind of my go to and so it's like oh like that's what's happening. No wonder I was like ready to like throw down with my husband and be like how dare you say these things right like just like oh it's because I was upset because earlier I heard this song and it made me sad. And so like I'm having a response to that like it really makes me miss mom and dad. And so even recognizing that can just really be like oh like it's okay I'm not crazy. I'm not a crazy person.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Like I'm having a nervous system response and you know maybe apologizing to the husband if I said some snappy words and maybe to the kids and and then yes again how do we how do we move forward with that right and I think especially with the holidays coming up I mean every year there's Halloween decorations in the store sooner which means like Thanksgiving and Christmas are in sooner and it just and then the seasons are changing which again can be a trigger almost and so it's just these things come up and how do we prepare for that how do we handle that yeah I remember like I still remember very vividly the first trigger that I had was when um I was going with a friend to pick up their child from a sporting event at my husband's um high school and that I mean we had done prom prom there I went to his graduation there I was not expecting the reaction that I got like I like it was almost like a panic attack type of reaction and for me I'm like flight or freeze is usually what I do and I just wanted to get as far away from it as I can and I think I cried for almost 24 hours like it was it was wild and to tell you the truth I've not been back to that school since yeah um so do grief triggers ever go away um and what happens when we try to avoid the possible triggers yeah so I mean I would say they yes and no they go away like I think some things that probably trigger early on won't affect you later just because you know the grief it does fade it's like like you said it's grief comes in waves and like it's not like the tsunami feeling waves it's like they feel more manageable so I would say they don't really go away but it's like they become more manageable and maybe a song that you heard in the beginning that like you'd be crying for two days afterwards it's like oh I just feel a little twinge of sadness or it kind of triggers a fond memory and I still feel sad but I I have a little joy in there as well with it.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

So it's still there but it becomes less intense and and I would say too like certain things like okay like with the high school where it's like if you don't have to go back all the time like you know it's okay to avoid it or to not go there if you don't need to but the ones that are more common like like again maybe you have a Christmas tradition that like you really did love and you just are terrified to do it because you don't want to bring up the response like that's where then you can you can work come come to our free workshop of course and like listen because like it'll it'll get you help to figure out like oh I don't have to stop doing that completely. Like it's I can allow these emotions and they can be and I can plan for how I again how I want to feel during before during after doing this Christmas thing and I can really take care of myself through it instead of trying to push it down because I was like our feelings are like a beach ball trying to be held underwater right it's just gonna keep popping back up like and so it'll come out one way or another and for me again I I'm fight or fix and so I tend to snap at my kids snap at my husband like you know be in attack mode and so it'll come out in that way or it'll come out and you're not getting sleep. It'll come out and maybe you're getting too more sleep than you need. It'll come right like it just comes out in different ways and our body holds on to that so if we allow it and and feel these emotions instead of trying to always push them down like then we don't have to avoid certain things and again we can be cautious and we can go in kind of like you know maybe just be like I'm nervous um I know my the first time we had Christmas out so my brother moved into the house that like we grew up in and my parents were in so my brother moved into that house and it was year six that we finally had Christmas out there and it was just one of those things I just like they asked on year five if we wanted to have Christmas out there and I just said no like I'm not ready and that that was enough and so like year six came and it was like okay like and I really made sure that I supported myself and did had easier days leading up to that I told my husband like I I just need to talk about how anxious I feel how stressed out I feel about this and we went and I was like I need you to check on me a couple times I need you to come and give me a hug a few times throughout the night just like hold my hand like right just really like communicating what I need and then afterwards I just knew like I'm probably gonna be emotionally drained and and it wasn't as bad as I thought but I think it's because I was prepared for it and I supported myself through it. So that's just a way to that knowing kind of like no I I'm kind of I wouldn't say I was avoiding it but I knew I wasn't ready and so when I was ready that I fully was able to support myself through it.

SPEAKER_01 39:26

That's I love that that's great.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

I can't wait to hear the rest of your uh your presentation on all of that so how can someone prepare when family tension and grief triggers collide yeah so that that's one too that um again come to the workshop I go into more details about that but really having some go-to phrases is very helpful and kind of what I said with like the knowing seeing that ahead of time like with the Christmas like okay like I'm anxious because I think this person's gonna say this I'm anxious because of this like so it's allowing that to be and saying okay and when this person most likely will say this thing this is going to be the phrase that I give them so it's it's going in not blind is is half the battle to say no like I can I can have these phrases that I say and that's okay. I always tell people no is a complete sentence like I know we always want to give justification and reasons for it but like no and then you can walk away and that that could be good enough. Okay I love that and um what is your hope that people walk away with after our our workshop at the foot of the cross my hope is that they just have hope and that they feel a little lighter and less alone because it is something that it is it's very draining grief is exhausting and the three of us have been through it and and I love also how we've been through different experiences of grief and I really think it'll help just help everybody like wherever you're at in that like just to walk away and be like oh my gosh that was that was so impactful and and of course like draw closer to the Lord that's always that's always our goal with it always.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Yes and I think also um to remember that our lady of sorrows is there with us right along the same journey because like you said before she has she has experienced all the same losses that we've experienced yeah so what's one small thing someone who feels stuck in grief can do today one small thing is just to I would start to um tell yourself like this is normal I'm having a nervous system response I'm having a stress response because I I think for me early on that was a big part of I felt crazy like I felt like this like is this normal is this fine like I can't I can't function almost so I think just knowing that oh like I I wish I would have known I wish I would have had the information I had now and be like it's this it's a nervous system response you're having a stress response and then taking 30 to 60 seconds 90 seconds maybe right a minute minute and a half to just go into the bathroom shut the door and just breathe through it or you like because a lot of times too if like your kids are around like you can do it like walk into the kitchen and just breathe for a just a minute a minute and a half just to be like okay and then be like Lord I give it all to you and then you can go about your day again. But it's just it's something that is quick it's fast and it kind of it does it like resets your nervous system to just take a few deep breaths maybe even like put your hand on your neck so you can like skin to skin contact and just breathe okay Lord I give it all to you and then help me with the rest of the day right yes I love that that reminds me of um one of my previous guests Teresa Matters she calls it PB and J pray oh no pause breathe and Jesus nice I love that so yeah that's that's great advice I love it.

SPEAKER_00 43:44

So why don't you remind our listeners where they can find you yeah you can find me at catholicgriefcoach.com and that's pretty much where all my stuff is or listen to my podcast which is Catholic Griefcoach and that just has more in-depth tips about grief.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Awesome well thank you so much for coming back on this podcast uh Nicole I'm really excited about our workshop coming up this weekend um I really feel like we we have a lot to offer the grief world so if you all found this podcast helpful please subscribe share so others can find it and come back next week talk to y'all later by you can find the link to our grief workshop on the homepage of my website www dotgenurebot.com